Alabama loses workers as immagration law passes

[jgoose71 0]

Personally, I don't see a problem. If employers want the job done, they will now have to pay a real wage to get it done.

If these are indeed "skilled" jobs, like carpentry or laying out irrigation systems, maybe they will start paying people what they are worth rather than paying an illegal under the table.

This is how capitalism is supposed to work. Supply and demand.

When you can't get someone to do the job, offer a higher wage, say above what they get for sitting on their ass.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44793726/ns/us_news-life/#.To2luzugW_V

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[Southern_Man 0]

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This is how capitalism is supposed to work. Supply and demand.

When you can't get someone to do the job, offer a higher wage, say above what they get for sitting on their ass.

No exactly capitalism. Immigration laws are a artificial market entry barrier which raises the price of labor by limiting competition.

Not saying that is right or wrong but it is definitely not pure capitalism.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[jgoose71 0]

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This is how capitalism is supposed to work. Supply and demand.

When you can't get someone to do the job, offer a higher wage, say above what they get for sitting on their ass.

No exactly capitalism. Immigration laws are a artificial market entry barrier which raises the price of labor by limiting competition.

Not saying that is right or wrong but it is definitely not pure capitalism.

Limiting competition?

Let me ask you this, how is providing a labor force that all have social security numbers and pay taxes limiting the competition? How is providing a labor force that all have the same over head costs and same needs in the community limiting the competition? Are you suggesting that there are not enough out of work people in Alabama to fill the void?

Are you upset that they are in the process of removing a lower class slave labor force from the equation? Are you upset that now everyone that works will pay taxes and those that pay taxes are the only ones allowed to have kids in schools?

Are you upset that a loop hole is being closed? We have a system in place. Those that work outside the system corrupt it. Those that work inside the system strengthen it.

Making everyone work inside the system is just ending a form of corruption.

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[JohnRich 4]

As the illegal immigrants flee, expect the unemployment rate to drop, as jobs open up for real Americans.

[Southern_Man 0]

I am not upset at anything. I am merely pointing out that limiting the supply of available labor is not an example of capitalism. There may be other worthwhile and relevant social goals which make such policies worthwhile.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[jgoose71 0]

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I am not upset at anything. I am merely pointing out that limiting the supply of available labor is not an example of capitalism. There may be other worthwhile and relevant social goals which make such policies worthwhile.

And all I am pointing out is that we are not limiting the supply of available labor. We are just forcing employers to hire workers from inside the system instead of outside the system, effectively stopping one of the factors driving wages down.

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[Remster 24]

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effectively stopping one of the factors driving wages down

What a communist thing to say.

Remster

[shropshire 0]

So long as you don't start moaning when the increased costs are reflected in the increased prices that you'll pay.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[billvon 2,400]

>If employers want the job done, they will now have to pay a real wage to get it done.

Or (more likely) outsource it to China.

>When you can't get someone to do the job, offer a higher wage

Or take it somewhere else and offer them half the wage.

>This is how capitalism is supposed to work. Supply and demand.

Yep. And part of that is having one country's economy fail when another can do the same work for cheaper. Might want to ask yourself if that's really what you want in the long run.

[jgoose71 0]

Yes, I can see how having all the building that were ruined by the tornadoes that ran through Alabama rebuilt can be outsourced to china....

Just smuggle more chinese workers to Alabama....

I guess your solution of having all the buildings rebuilt by union workers is more cost effective?

The economy was once in an equilibrium where people doing this kind of work could support their families. How do you suppose we get there again?

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[Remster 24]

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How do you suppose we get there again?

Ahhhh... The good old days(TM).

You can't go back. The world has changed, and will continue to change. People want their $1000 50 inch LCD's, $99 (or free) smart phones,, $1 tube socks, and $0.50 lettuce.

Remster

[billvon 2,400]

>Yes, I can see how having all the building that were ruined by the
>tornadoes that ran through Alabama rebuilt can be outsourced to china...

They can't be - but the work once done in them can be. Why build a manufacturing plant when you can have China build things for you?

>I guess your solution of having all the buildings rebuilt by union workers is
>more cost effective?

Nope, that's just as bad.

Get rid of the minimum wage. Allow anyone who wants to work to work, regardless of where they are from. Just watch how fast those buildings get built.

>The economy was once in an equilibrium where people doing this kind of
>work could support their families. How do you suppose we get there again?

See above.

[jgoose71 0]

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effectively stopping one of the factors driving wages down

What a communist thing to say.

I know, making people work within the law is such a communist thing to do....

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[Southern_Man 0]

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And all I am pointing out is that we are not limiting the supply of available labor. We are just forcing employers to hire workers from inside the system instead of outside the system, effectively stopping one of the factors driving wages down.

If you somehow can't understand that these are exactly the same thing then I can't really help you.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[jgoose71 0]

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Get rid of the minimum wage. Allow anyone who wants to work to work, regardless of where they are from. Just watch how fast those buildings get built.

Which is effectively what I am saying, just make sure the workers are legal so we aren't continuing to artificially driving down wages.

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[billvon 2,400]

>And all I am pointing out is that we are not limiting the supply of available
>labor. We are just forcing employers to hire workers from inside the
>system instead of outside the system, effectively stopping one of the
>factors driving wages down.

"Gun control advocates aren't trying to limit gun sales. They are just forcing gun nuts to buy approved guns via the proper channels."

[Remster 24]

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effectively stopping one of the factors driving wages down

What a communist thing to say.

I know, making people work within the law is such a communist thing to do....

When the law clearly restrict the ability of corporation to maximize profit, it clearly is.

Just because you like a law doesnt mean it's capitalist, you know..

Remster

[billvon 2,400]

>Which is effectively what I am saying, just make sure the workers are legal

And what I am saying is that "legal worker" should be "anyone who wants to work."

[christelsabine 1]

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As the illegal immigrants flee, expect the unemployment rate to drop, as jobs open up for real Americans.

Wow, that's what I call decent - giving jobs back to them real American people, you know the ones with the red skin and feathers in their hair.

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[jgoose71 0]

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And all I am pointing out is that we are not limiting the supply of available labor. We are just forcing employers to hire workers from inside the system instead of outside the system, effectively stopping one of the factors driving wages down.

If you somehow can't understand that these are exactly the same thing then I can't really help you.

And if you can't understand that all the people sitting on there ass collecting unemployment are an un-utilized labor force, then I can't help you.

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[jgoose71 0]

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effectively stopping one of the factors driving wages down

What a communist thing to say.

I know, making people work within the law is such a communist thing to do....

When the law clearly restrict the ability of corporation to maximize profit, it clearly is.

Just because you like a law doesnt mean it's capitalist, you know..

Your a hell of a pitch man. Have you ever considered a job as a lobbyist?

I apologize, that was below the belt, Mods, don't ban me for that.....

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[Southern_Man 0]

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And all I am pointing out is that we are not limiting the supply of available labor. We are just forcing employers to hire workers from inside the system instead of outside the system, effectively stopping one of the factors driving wages down.

If you somehow can't understand that these are exactly the same thing then I can't really help you.

And if you can't understand that all the people sitting on there ass collecting unemployment are an un-utilized labor force, then I can't help you.

That's a good argument for eliminating unemployment insurance and the minimum wage. That would be a capitalist solution instead of throwing out all the competition.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[jgoose71 0]

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>Which is effectively what I am saying, just make sure the workers are legal

And what I am saying is that "legal worker" should be "anyone who wants to work."

That's all fine and dandy, but you do understand the implications of allowing employers to pay under the table, avoid taxes, and utilize a communities resources without contributing, don't you? That's why we need to start using "legal" workers to do these jobs.

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[billvon 2,400]

>but you do understand the implications of allowing employers to pay under
>the table, avoid taxes, and utilize a communities resources without
>contributing, don't you?

Yes. So make sure anyone who wants to work can work LEGALLY. Want a job? Walk across the border in Tijuana, find a help wanted sign and start working legally for $2 an hour. What? He displaced a guy who wanted $10 an hour for the same job because he felt entitled to it? Good!

[jgoose71 0]

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>but you do understand the implications of allowing employers to pay under
>the table, avoid taxes, and utilize a communities resources without
>contributing, don't you?

Yes. So make sure anyone who wants to work can work LEGALLY. Want a job? Walk across the border in Tijuana, find a help wanted sign and start working legally for $2 an hour. What? He displaced a guy who wanted $10 an hour for the same job because he felt entitled to it? Good!

And I'm OK with that, just cross the border legally instead Illegally in the middle of the night so you can get all the proper documentation and be taxed like a patriotic American.

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything